Charlie  

Welcome to the Trade Secrets Inspections podcast, because “You need to know!”. Here’s your host, Rick Kooyman.

Hey there. This is Charlie McDermott, the producer of the Trade Secrets Inspections, podcast. And as always, my partner here Rick Kooyman, the owner of Trade Secrets Inspections. Rick, how are you today?

 Rick 

I’m doing excellent, Charlie, and it’s great to be with you again.

Charlie  

Thrilled to have you. And I always enjoy our sessions.

Rick 

Yea we have a good one today.

Charlie  

For our listeners, Rick has been teasing this episode, he has something real special. A little bit out of the box. Is that a good way to yet you give me a lot of details that a good?

Rick 

Yeah, we’re going to talk about something other than real estate today we’re gonna we’re gonna enjoy understanding or appreciating ourselves and today and, and what’s important to us.

Charlie

Oh, man, I love that. Well, let’s, let’s hear it, man. 

Rick

All right. So what I’m gonna start talking about is how we, how we live our lives, how we measure ourselves, and you know, the history of where that comes from, you know, we all follow basically, a week a calendar, you know, we chase the clock around all day long. And it’s just kind of something that goes unobserved or where did all that come from? You know, how did that how did that stuff come to be? Yeah, yeah. So, so let’s look at the history of calendars to start with. Okay, so let’s talk about real primitive stuff, you know, way back when there was, you know, no, no scientific instruments. So, as a primitive being, you had basically two ways to measure time, right? You had day, the time between the two nights? Right? And you had essentially what was the month, or the lunar cycle, the time between the new moons and that was pretty much what you had to observe. There were other nuances to be seen. But in general, for the average person, you, you saw the sun come up and go down. And that was your day. And then at night, you saw this other thing come and go. And it changed every day, throughout the month. And that was the other measure of time was the lunar month. Okay, so the stars in the sky appear in different locations, depending on where the earth is in its orbit around the sun. But you know, that wasn’t really known at the time. But through observation, it became pretty obvious if you paid attention that, well, there was a CYCLE occurring, you know, and you could predict that this was going to happen, or this was going to rise at this location. Because it did this once before. Right. Okay, so way of measuring or our, let’s create a cycle, right? The Egyptians, we all know, we’re lovers have the night sky. They, the priests really studied the night sky. And they essentially watched what was what was called the Dog Star or Sirius, okay. And they watched and were able to notice that Sirius came up at the same point, every 365 days.

They took that, and we’re able to use that measure to measure the number of days in the year as opposed to the lunar cycle. Because if you look at the moon, the moon cycles are 29 and a half days. So it’s out of sync. Right. Right. And, and a lunar year is actually 354 days. Okay, so if followed the lunar calendar, which was what early people did, because it was easier to track the lunar cycle, and people live by the moon cycles. This shifted, because you were missing a few days in your year, you’re essentially you were 11 days short, while you followed the lunar cycle, right? Since figured that out by rocks and Sirius or the Dog Star and said, Hey, there’s actually 365 days in this rotation. And that helps us keep our seasons in line. Okay, so they switch to the solar calendar at that point. Right. And it came about from watching the stars. But they moved to a day cycle calendar of watching the sun. Okay, so it changed that irregularity or that shift. And historically we have a record of when the Dog Star gear was first recorded. So this is kind of an oddity in AD 139 was recorded in Egypt as a dog star here. And based on the relative shifting of time, you could calculate when they first originated their calendar based on the shift because they’re, they’re still missing a little bit of time and their count of the days, because our earth actually orbits the Sun in 365 days, and approximately six hours, so that six hours is still an air for them. And they weren’t accounting for it. So their calendar also drifted a little bit due to the six hours, but instead of drifting on like a 32 year cycle, it shifted on a 14 160 year cycle. So it was less noticeable, if you will, right. Okay. But as we got more and more civilized, these shifts in times started to become more noticeable because civilization was prospering, you know, people were starting to travel and alignments were becoming more important. And then we got into the Roman era. And Julius Caesar comes to power and says, you know, this is, this is all out of whack. I need this better.

So he employs someone to figure out how to make it better, and they figure out hey, we’re missing the six hours. So we end up with what we call the Julian calendar. So he left the Egyptian Calgary went to the room and calendar, the Julian calendar. So essentially, he said he they figure this out. And in 46 BC, he says, Alright, we’re going to start over, I’m going to add 99 days to the this year 46 BC to correct for the slippage and we’re going to start January 1, 45, BC, with the new calendar, the Julian calendar. So they add that six years and, and doing it, they create leap year. Okay, so we all here to leap year, which is basically every four years, we add one day to the shortest month of the year, to compensate for the six hour shift. So Feb 29th occurs every four years, essentially is a leap year.

Now, this is kind of I found this interesting, at the same time that the Romans were figuring this out and making their calendar on the opposite side of the world, independent. The Maya, were doing the exact same thing. They created a 365 day calendar, as well. They divided it up into 18 months, and they had 20 days in a month and they created a calendar round. Is that is what they called it. You know, it was intriguing that similar things were happening in society development on completely opposite sides of the earth when they were fully not in contact with each other, or as far as we know. Right. Right. Right. Right. So that’s intriguing that, and that worked for a very long time. Wow. As we advanced into the new modern times, though, and we started to record and measure time more accurately, I guess, blocks. Again, it was realized that 365 days and six hours wasn’t correct. And there was still an error there. Really, really. So the actual right thing was 365 48 minutes and 46 seconds. So that’s three, it’s 365 days, five hours, 48 minutes and 46 seconds.

The correct two from the Julian calendar, to what we live with today. And today’s calendars actually known as the Gregorian calendar. Where do you get that name? Well, it was created by Pope Gregory the third, who again said, Hey, we have an issue in shipping and scheduling. And we need to figure out how to solve this problem. So he employed a mathematician, Christopher Claudius to resolve that issue. And they decided that that missing little bit of minutes there amounted to an extra three days every 400 years. So they had a simple solution. They were like, well, how are we going to figure this out? Well, Pope Gregory the third had a moment of genius. And he said, You know what, let’s take the centuries ending in 00. So you know, 2000, whatever, just your zero ending centuries. And if they’re divisible by 400, then we’re going to make those leap years and if they’re not, then they’re not leap year. So this simplify that. So like the year 1600 There is a leap year any year 2000 is also a leap year. But in the year 1700 18 119 100, we didn’t have a February 29. Leap Year, those years skipped the Leap Year to correct for the time.

Charlie  

So is is that in addition to the every four years?

Rick Kooyman  

Yeah, exactly. That’s it’s the correction to the Leap Year principle. So there’s a little bit modification to the four year every four year thing. And in that if the century ends in zero, and is divisible by 400, then it’s not a leap year. Oh, my goodness, well, actually, it is a leap year. And if it’s not 400, then it’s not a leap year. So it’s kind of interesting. So there’s a calendar. Okay. So now we know we live with our Gregorian calendar, and it came through, you know, all of its developments. And then we’re like, but really, we live by the week, right? Well, geez, the week is fully subjective, isn’t it? Well, China developed a five day week, which was basically established for work privileges. And then on the fifth day, was the day of bathing and hair washing. So work your servants to the bone for five days. On the fifth day, you allow them to take a bath. And then they actually moved that to 10 days. And I guess she took a bath every 10 days. We have a seven day week. So where did the seven day week come from? There’s two general kind of ideas where that might come from. One is the biblical story of creation, which we all know, you know, God created the earth. On the seventh day he rested. Or, there’s the more likely story where the Romans created in the first century, the seven day week, and they named it after the seven known planets. So it started with the Roman names of the planets. And it got a little bit taken over by the Norse and the Norse gods. And they changed half of the days of the weeks to Norse Gods name. So you have the beginning of the week with Roman planet names like Marty and Mercydie. And then you have Tui, Wote Thor and Frig, which is actually Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. So they’re just they started off as these names of planets and names of gods and the words have just been changed through dialects. And, you know, they’re kind of not exactly what they started with, but they have their roots and in the names of planets and gods. Okay, so this is arbitrary stuff right? Now, now we got this calendar that we’ve taken, I don’t know, a couple 1000 years to figure out how to get right. And we made up this arbitrary week that we all live by, and we divided that up into hours so that we can all meet each other for lunch accurately. But what does all this mean? We’re talking about numbers. So this is where I want to really take you for a ride. Okay, so let’s look at numbers mean, one to 10, we all know, you know, we can we can conceive of one to 10. Or you know, the zero in the one, you know, so it’s pretty easy to get ourselves from one to 10. But when we start talking about big numbers, it’s hard to wrap your head around it. Okay, so let’s take a look at money, because we all can conceive of money. And let’s look at Mr. Gates. So let’s say Bill Gates is worth $56 billion. Okay, so if we looked at that in a different way, we could say that he earned $3,000 a minute, or $50 a second. For his time, he worked at Microsoft. A pretty good hourly rate.

Charlie  

And not too shabby.

Rick 

I mean, it literally, it says if you took if he took five seconds to stop and pick up $100 bill off the floor, he was literally not using his time wisely.  But again, this is the power of numbers. Okay, so we’re trying to conceive it. What does this stuff mean? All right. So we take one to one to 10. And we had, you know, billions and trillions and all that. So let’s make sense out of that. So, instead of money, let’s look at it in time. We have one second. It was one second, right? Well, if we take a million seconds, how long is that? It’s actually 12 days. That’s a nice vacation, right? Okay. million seconds is 12 days. It gives you something to conceive of, right? Right. Well, what’s up billion seconds. Long is a billion seconds. It’s actually 30 years. Right? So when you go from a million to a billion, it’s hard to conceive of how big that step is, you know, you went from 12 days to 30 years. Well, geez, trillion. You know, we keep talking about this new number with, you know, to me, I’m like, man, we’re talking about money and trillions. Now, I can’t even conceive of this. What does this mean? Right? So what is a trillion seconds?

Okay, it’s 30,000 years. Right? So you went from one second to a million seconds being 12 Days to a trillion seconds being 30,000 years. That’s longer than the historical record of human civilization. I mean, there’s some relevance, or archaeological evidence that say there might be societies of 100,000 years or whatever. But you’re still talking. A trillion in seconds is 30,000 years. That’s a huge number, right? So right, we’re getting there. We’re getting there. Okay. So now let’s, let’s take this one step further. All right. So we all measure ourselves according to this earth, year, day, hour period thing. Right? Completely relative to ourselves. So how do I mean that? Let’s say you meet an alien, this afternoon, you go out have lunch, and you’re gonna have it with the first extraterrestrial you ever met. Now, the first thing you want to know is you’re going to eat you, when we figure out that they’re not a threat. Okay, let’s see what we can learn from each other. So what would you want to ask your first alien friend? What would you want to know?

Charlie  

I don’t know.

Rick 

Where are you from? Mm hmm. Okay. Maybe How do you measure time? Or how old are you? What scale? Would you use them? You can’t measure it in Earth years. He’s not from our solar system. Right. So how do we relate to that? Do they die? Do they have a life cycle? What do they know about how the universe was created? Or is there a god? I mean, these are deep thoughts, right? Okay, but we can all say that we can all ask these questions, whether we’re from Earth or not. So how do we look at the scale of things? Well, in an alien representation, we can look at it on a solar timescale. Right. So now that we’ve got an idea of what billions and trillions sounds like, our solar system that we live in, is about 5 billion years old. Okay, the Earth was created about, you know, we’re about three points. 13 point. Well, I misspoke there, our solar system. Present day, we’re at 13 Point 7 billion years since the Big Bang is what they say, Okay? Now, if the sun was created, somewhere after the Big Bang, but before the earth, and all that the sun is about 4.5 billion years old. And it’s said to be about halfway through its life. So let’s say that the sun lives to be 10 billion years old, at which point it’s supposed to go into become a red giant and absorb the earth and all that and the earth will be gone. But that’s not what we’re looking at. We’re looking at solar timescales. So if we measure the universe, according to solar masses, at the end of the energy being consumed in the universe, it is estimated that all the stars will burn out in about 15 trillion years. Okay, so that’s a really big number. But it’s a really big universe, right? So think about it. In 15 trillion years, there will be no stars left in the sky, the universe will have gone completely black. Well, then what? Well, then you have all of eternity. So you’re in you’ve lost, you’ve left the solar era. And now we’re into the next era of the universe or the dark era, which we can’t even begin to conceive of. Right. So So, I guess the end of the story is or where I’m taking on all this is, you know, just recognize the absolute value of your actual personal existence, your actual time here. You know, that I think, therefore, I am position, you know, this moment right here right now. And it’s absolute relevance or you know, the specialness of it, and appreciate its for its full value, you know, and the irony of what we think of is important to us, is often not really what’s important to us, what’s really important to us is our recognition of our time. And, and appreciating the value of being able, being able to recognize it. And appreciate it while we’re here.

Charlie  

So from this point forward, I now address you as Professor Rick Coleman, number one, and we’re poorly I mean, my goodness, you You really did a nice job. Going through the history i had 90%. Of what I had no idea I snooze through that class, I guess, or I just never heard of it. So that was insightful. But, you know, to put this all in perspective about, like you said, our time here and the power of now, right, really appreciating, you know, every day every moment.

Rick 

Yeah, and our loved ones and, and what’s important to us and what’s, you know, maybe, relative to the moment, important to us, but not overall important to us. And in the grand scheme of things, and yeah, yeah, the power of numbers is it’s an interesting thing, the zero and the one, how far they can go.

Charlie  

And amazing how that was figured out so long ago without computers, and you know, all that stuff that we just take for granted.

Rick

Wow, yeah, it all starts with watching the sun, and then watching the night sky, and then figuring out the difference between the two. And then trying to make sense out of what a trillion means. Alright, goodness, I still can’t wrap my head around man. But man, it’s such a leap. And then if you take those concepts and yet you apply them to something that they actually hold relevance to, which is kind of soldiers timescales. And there’s a finite period to that even.

Charlie  

Alright, we have Yeah, blew me away today. So thank you for cheering i I have no idea what’s next man. This is uh, this is great stuff. Yeah, yeah, it was fun. So thanks for the ride. And we look forward to the next episode. 

Rick 

Till the next time, Charlie.

 Charlie 

Thanks for listening to the Trade Secrets Inspections podcast. To learn more about Trade Secrets Inspections, go to www.TradeSecretsInspections.com or call to 239-537-1186.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Episode #7: What’s the Scoop on Building Codes?

Charlie 

Welcome to the Trade Secrets Inspections podcast, because “You need to know!”. Here’s your host, Rick Kooyman.

Hey, welcome back to the Trade Secrets Inspections podcast. I’m Charlie McDermott here with Rick Kooyman. Rick, how you doing?

Rick 

I’m doing excellent, Charlie, it is fantastic to be back with you again, and sharing some knowledge and some information to help people out.

Charlie 

You are the best at sharing knowledge, you’re so not only insightful, but talk about you know, you just, you just know the ins and outs and the in-betweens. And today, I know you had mentioned we’re gonna talk about building codes, which is, you know, hold on, don’t Don’t, don’t let anyone fall asleep on us. As you know, if you’ve listened to previous episodes, Rick, has a way to really pull us in. And in Rick, when it comes to building codes, it’s probably not anything that your clients have, like, you know, gone to the local jurisdictions and read all the language, but I know you were deep into it. So this is really important when it comes to, you know, buying Heck, even selling a home, I’ve heard some nightmare stories and things all of a sudden pop up out of nowhere. And so I’m really excited about this. So I’m going to turn the microphone over to you and let’s get into it.

Rick 

Fantastic. Yeah. Today I want to talk about building codes. Why do we have building codes? Where did they come from some of the history? Why is it important to us the average person? How does it relate to me in my profession as an inspector, a home inspector? And really What is the general gist of what it’s doing for us and the general population out there in our homes and our apartments and condos and all that good stuff. So just to start way back in the beginning, let’s look at where did building code begin? And who do we have to thank for it. And our first known ritten building code, we have record found , Actually, it’s carved in stone! Evolved, 1758 BC, ci, a mama Robbie, wrote the first building code. And it basically laid out a guidance as to how a structure was to be built. And it stated, if a builder has built a house for a man, and his work is not strong. And if that house has building failures and kills the householder builder shall be slain.

Charlie 

Wow, that’s a code.

Rick 

There you go. Right.

Charlie 

You know, that we could really simplify life by having codes like that. That is just like, you know, okay, don’t mess up focus when you’re at work. And yeah, exactly.

Rick 

Let’s get right to the end. You know, it’s funny. It really kind of cut to the gist back then. And you know, it kept most people honest. And the only thing it really didn’t cover was for the homeowner or family member that did it for themselves.

Charlie 

Yeah, I guess

well, yeah, you know, might have

Rick 

been part of the rules.

Charlie 

That’s crazy.

Rick 

Wow, that that’s where we have a history to begin with. And then as we went on, and we got more civilized I guess you could say or we started living in greater depth cities. We all look back at London in the London fires back in 1666. to level the city, and then more locally, we can look at Chicago and the Chicago fires of the 1800s, late 1800s 1870s and they started looking at building codes and asking how can we address risk and more importantly, how can we address the risk to the adjacent building? You know, it was one thing if you wanted to do it to yourself, but when we lived in higher densities, it started to affect our neighbors and now we had responsibilities we had to uphold so they went with regulations that dealt with just that thing you know, common walls between buildings that became a code dangerous practices such as wooden chimneys, you know, back when everybody was burning. You couldn’t have a wood chimney, can you believe it? In a rule Wow. And then, you know, saying does that seem like such a great idea. It went on to deal with such basic things as you know, having needed light and ventilation and you know, well, let’s have a fire escape and let’s talk about potable water and toilets and sanitary drains and stairs, railings, basic safety stuff. So that’s basically where it originates. And then of course, you get into the late 1800’s and early 1900s, and we start talking about insurance. Insurance begins with basically fire, you know that that’s the primary the big risk, you know, this stuff are all started with cities burning down. So again, the fire Commission’s became where these rules started to originate. And it started with the National Board of fire underwriters. And they originally created what we call and still have is the National Building Code. And the whole purpose was to minimize risk to both the property and the building occupants. So so the, the gist of things are, why do we say we have building codes, it’s simply for safety. And to maintain, you know, some standards so that we have some consistency of expectation between each other as we live as neighbors. Wow. So these codes developed over time and got more complicated. And the fire commission started these original codes. And they developed three different organizations, essentially, they had an international code, they had a residential code, which we still use the international IRC, which is the standard code throughout the country. And then they have an International Energy Commission code that deals with conservation of energy and power. And we have plumbing, electrical, and all those other things added to it now to the big difference here in the United States is that none of these codes are federally enforced. This is all left up to the states. So even though the IRC exists in general, it’s not a federal mandate, such as in other countries, there are federal codes. So everybody is the same no matter where I’m here we we like to leave it up to the states and states rights because the United States. And so as we go from different states, there’s different rules in different jurisdictions, again, have different rules within the state. There are some jurisdictions that have no rules. To this day, there are some areas you go there no building codes, really. Yeah, absolutely a rural rural America for sure. Yeah, there’s no, there’s no overseeing body established to create the code. So it still doesn’t exist, doesn’t mean they can’t go by the IRC. And that’s generally what does happen. So we just default back to the basics of, you know, the International residential code. But the jurisdiction doesn’t exist, if the infrastructure doesn’t exist, and it’s it’s basically people policing themselves in the community level. In Florida, we have developed specific codes, Florida, and California, in particular high risk areas that led the country in development of code. The first codes to come to Florida started in 74, when the state adopted what we call the SBC, which was the southern Building Council, or the southern or the standard building code. And it was created by the southern building code Congress. Keep all that straight . Right. And in Canada, it was based on that international residential code that IRC that started way back from the fire commission in 70, floor 74, the state enacted and adopted the use of that SBC, that standard building code. And it was loosely enforced, but not really applied, but it was there as a reference almost, if you will. In 94, they formed the international code Council in Florida and they formed what we call the FPC which is the Florida building code. The Florida building code that was developed out of Miami and again it was the result of devastation as you know this stuff started with firing and in Florida It started with Hurricane Andrew. Again Hurricane Andrew came in to South Florida and homestead and basically erased it from the surface and the city said Wow, that was painful. It was one of the biggest hits to the insurance industry nationally. Insurance as a industry became not available which was a problem for development of Miami develop they took the IRC and said okay, we’re gonna change things and we’re gonna make it again local jurisdiction to withstand the storms so that we can build back better. And that’s what they did. They develop that FBC it became the ES f bc the South Florida building code because The rest of the state didn’t want to adopt it. They, they didn’t want to take part into it. It didn’t become a state enacted thing until the late early 2000s. So, in 2001, the state finally adopted it from one end to the other. But even at that point, North Florida still refused to participate in what was the FBC code because they insisted that they were not prone to hurricanes and storms. We’ve learned from them, I would hope that that was not the case. But it is still that Miami Dade is considered the high velocity hurricane zone. It’s just Miami Dade County, and anything outside of that is still following the FPC code. So there are specifics that maintain the highest standard, but they’re only pertinent to those two counties still. House over here in Collier, we live in what’s called the high wind area or the 140, which is the step down from the high velocity zone. So that essentially means that in the next up, change from underwriting, they’re going to include us in the high velocity hurricane zone, or the high risk zone. But basically anything on the coast right now within 10 miles of the water is considered a high wind zone. Okay, so we develop the South Florida building code, and it became the law in March 1 of 2002. So prior to March one 2002. If you weren’t in Miami Dade County, you were not generally building to that FBC code, you might have been following the international residential code, or you might not have enforcement was very loosely followed. And again, it was handed out by the local jurisdiction. And it varies from county to county, literally, I mean, there’s some in jurisdictions, you know, each town binita, Fort Myers Beach, a stero. each county will have their own building department within them. And they all answer to the FBC in the end, but they make their own codes and they make them a little stricter or do whatever is in the interest of that city’s board. And it’s constantly changing, because you know, board members changing, they make the rules up as they go.

In general, the building code is updated every three years. The IRC, and the associated codes that follow under it are changed on a three year cycle. We just changed. We’re currently in the 2020 code cycle, which is the seventh edition. On these changes over years, there’s usually a delay in implementation of the changeover stuff, just because trying to get all the contractors on the same page and up to speed with the changes. That’s not to say that the code doesn’t change every year, though there are yearly amendments that come out. So there’ll be an amendment to the 2020 code every year, until we get to the 2023 code. And then the whole thing will start over again. So it’s an ever changing world of rules. And it is very much like reading tax code. It is hard to follow. It’s very specific. And this is where the confusion comes in for the homeowner and the city. And the like of well, the city inspected it so why isn’t it fine? That that’s that’s all well and good. And the purpose of these codes was just for safety and standard. The problem is the numbers. Okay, so if you look at it from the standpoint of what the city is doing, a city code employee, an ICC code worker, as we call them, and international code Inspector, they basically are tasked with about anywhere between 25 and 50 stops and an eight hour schedule. I mean, you do them when you expect a code inspector to come in and he has basically not more than 10 minutes allocated to that single stop. And it’s sometimes there’s not even 10 minutes. So he’s got a list of stuff in his head that’s important to them. And that cycle that they’re looking to bring everybody up to, you know that they come in and go, Hey, this guy changed and you didn’t do it. And all the rest of the other stuff falls under the idea that the contractors are licensed. And their license is predicated on them following the code. So it’s kind of an after the fact assumption that they’re doing it out of being a professional in their industry. So there’s no way for you the homeowner to hold the city responsible for missing something in their code inspections. They’re doing it for their own purposes, essentially, which is really to keep contractors all on the same page with the city they’re working under. So you’re asking too much, basically, of your city code Inspector, to come out and make sure that your house is everything that you expected it to be, if your builder or contractor came up short, or didn’t know the updates or went his own way, and something. That’s where we come in as the private home inspector, we fill that gap. I don’t go out to do their job. I try not to reference code for this specific reason of attorney saying, well, you’re acting as a code Inspector, then not a code inspector. I’m a home inspector. But the basics of what these things are supposed to be our reference back to code. So yes, I have to follow and reference the code. But I am an independent contractor who references overall safety, I look at workmanship they don’t, I’m concerned with the overall product, they have no concern for how well it was done. They just want to know that it was done according to the rules. That doesn’t mean it was done right. Then just mean it was done according to the rule.

on the sly, if you will, the the word on the street, as we call it, if a builder told you that they built your house to code, another way of looking at that is saying they built you the minimum quality product they could build you right or the biggest POS on the block. There’s a lot to be said, just assuming that the city is looking out for you. And when you have what we call a CRC issued for your brand new home which is your certificate of occupancy certificate your CRC. And that basically means that the city’s done with it, they’ve done all their due diligence on their part, they’ve sent out all their inspectors to the extent for the purposes that they want, not you want and they’re done with it. That has nothing to do with how well they met your sales contract or your expectation or their due diligence to their warranty. I go in and see new builds all the time that you know right from the get go are seriously in need of repair. Currently, with the market the way it is product line supply lines chains are hit and miss. There’s a lot of struggle to get doors and windows right now. Which is holding up the progress that leads to contractor being pushed to do things they wouldn’t otherwise do. Such as Let’s finish the interior without the doors and windows installed. Wow, wow. Yeah, that’s gonna lead to some issues. Right? We’re starting off with a mold filled building. And then we’re finishing it. These things are not accounted for by the city. The city is not concerned with these things. The way in which a contractor does his job is not of their concern. That’s not to say that if you are dissatisfied with your contractor, there’s no way to go to the city and hold them the contractor responsible because the contract driver’s license through the city and that’s where the power comes from the homeowner you have an ability and a right and a means of making a dispute or putting a lien or some kind of complaint on a contractor’s license holding up their additional permits so that they can’t proceed with other work there’s means to deal with these things and that’s why the city does exist but it’s not generally what most people think of well they’re here to make sure that all these things are done for me that’s not the case. So that’s that’s Yeah,

Charlie 

and I know you’re just wrapping up but just just something comes to mind because because over the years I’ve done my share if you know not me personally and that’s where I’m going with this you know bringing contractors in to do work on the Home Renovations you know adding additions and all that and I have no clue of the quality work I mean I obviously I trust my contract and and all that but you know as you’re talking and thinking well you know, it probably would make sense to bring in a home inspector just to make sure that the work is done not like you said not just to code but you know to the standards that I’m expecting but I would have no clue if it’s really done to that level is that do you find yourself doing a lot of that work as well?

Rick 

Yeah, I in particular that’s that’s one of my niches in the industry I come from building my background is you know 30 years of doing the work with the various trade industries so I know the exact answer to that question. I know that the sleazy ways to get things done to hide things with you know what looks good but you know behind the first layer isn’t and that’s exactly what we’re getting out there. What is the workmanship? What is the quality of the product and you know, just because it looks shiny doesn’t mean it’s going to hold up and and yeah, absolutely that is exactly what we are here to help with. Part of getting the word out there to the consumer is that the home inspector not all but there are us qualified home inspectors with the knowledge base and background that will be that person for you to do just that that third party Hey, I’m just here to tell them how it is and this is what’s going on and I know that takes

Charlie 

you know the awkwardness out of you know for me to you know not confront but even just say ask questions. One what the answer is I’m not going to get because I’m not in that world but also just that relationship side of the equation when you bring you in to have that conversation you get it you can ask the right questions and I’m out of that maybe awkward situation if something that we should come up that doesn’t meet you know,

Rick 

exactly you know, a prime example is when I just did for a customer of a new bill they had an inspection of some nature done that reported issues with the roof they’d brought it up with their contractor the contractor denied you know, said no, then I don’t agree whatever, left them in limbo, they didn’t know the home inspector wasn’t very knowledgeable of what he was speaking of in that regard. I guess they admitted that at that point other than they deferred it for further evaluation and they found me listed through the tile roof Institute because that’s one of my specialties so I go through the training just like the installer contractor knows so you’re not getting when you tell me something you’re not going to follow me I don’t know you know and I looked at it and I did you know my fair assessment and in my opinion there was nothing wrong with it you know, I came down on the side of the contractor and there’s no harm done there. So again, the customer is brought back home to the contractor with the warm fuzzy feeling um you know not being slighted yeah you know, so it there’s a win on both sides. Yeah,

Charlie 

it is. Wow. Great, great stuff Rick. I know listeners really appreciate the time you spent in you know, weekly daily just staying on top of this and all the changes that will probably hit tomorrow and next week and next month and you know, that’s the wonderful thing about what you do you know, I know our listeners should they use your service can depend on you being on top of everything and and serving the role of making sure that whether we’re buying a home or selling a home or adding to our home that it’s it’s done the right way so awesome, awesome stuff.

Rick 

impartial third party. Yep, always here to help.

Charlie 

Terrific. Well look forward to the next episode. Rick, you have an awesome day.

Rick 

You too it’s great talking with you again, Charlie, and we’ll do it again.

Charlie 

Thanks for listening to the Trade Secrets Inspections podcast. To learn more about Trade Secrets Inspections, go to www.TradeSecretsInspections.com or call to 239-537-1186.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Charlie 

Welcome to the Trade Secrets Inspections podcast, because “You need to know!”. Here’s your host, Rick Kooyman.

Hey, welcome back to the Trade Secrets Inspections podcast. I’m Charlie McDermott here with Rick Kooyman. Rick, how you doing?

Rick

I’m doing excellent Charlie, it’s great to be with you again.

 Charlie 

Great to be with you and I’m looking forward to another really important topic. I know Radon is something you and I have kind of discussed off—I was gonna say off camera- off microphone I guess technically with a podcast, and you know coming from Pennsylvania Radon was a big big deal because we had basements and air quality and all that and so that was an important test. I got down to Florida and I didn’t I didn’t think Radon was a thing here I didn’t realize it until I you know we started talking so I’m really happy you’re going to get into Radon and actually touch on some water quality points today so I’m going to turn the mic over to you because you’re the one should be taught by Radon man that me so listen what’s going on with Radon in Florida here?

Rick

Yeah, let’s discuss Radon. First, let’s talk about what Radon is to begin with. So we kind of are on the same page here. And when we when we say the word Radon, what we’re referring to, is a gas that’s actually produced by the disintegration of uranium, essentially, it’s a radiation gas, it’s pretty much found everywhere. It occurs naturally in the soil and the earth, you know, all over the place. So it primarily comes out of rocks, essentially, because that’s where we’re going to find the uranium products in and depending on where we’re at geographically, it does matter. Absolutely, there are places where it’s more prevalent than others and as a lot of people think here down or down here in Florida that that it’s really not prevalent in the soil. And that’s true to some extent, we do find it in the soil to a degree and there are pockets where it’s more prevalent than others but more importantly where we find Radon coming from is it actually comes from the building products that are being used so when we’re using a lot of concrete products in the state, you know a lot of things are built out a block and slabs and stones and all those things contain those radiation products and so depending on where they were sourced from and what we’re putting in to the home. Radon levels vary greatly from location to location so honestly the only way to know what you got in that regard is to test for it because Radon is ubiquitous in its nature. It doesn’t have any taste or odor or color there’s there’s really no way to perceive it. To know that it’s around. And you know the government monitors it. There is currently a rating for Collier County is sitting at 20% of the homes right now or 20% of the land in Collier County is rated at above the safe level of what they measure of for picocuries liters; picocuries liters is a weird unit. It’s just a measure it’s a very small like it’s a trillionth per two radiation units per minute. It’s a weird science unit but they do have a standard essentially and we can measure to that unit and the standard is for the cutoff line is 4.0 picocuries liters. Okay. Anywhere in that area is going to be you know a risk zone to say that 3.9 is safe and 4.0 is not is kind of silly but somewhere we got to draw the line so at 4.0 they say you must put a mitigation system in to accommodate for it but below that we’re not required to. Personally I find it in testing in the area about one in five homes we test come up positive for it. Like I said there’s no real rhyme or reason to it. I’ve seen it in multiple story condos you know 10th floor unit, the one unit will have it and the adjoining unit will not and again it’s very dependent on you know, pipe chases and materials used in in the unit. You know things like granite counter tops can be very protective. And Radon. You’d be surprised you know if we put a Radon unit a testing unit in a home and we set it near a granite counter top. It will come back positive every time so placement of the devices are our key knowledge on how you’re supposed to set these things up is also you know, it’s it’s part of why they’re licensed you know state licensing is required to do Radon. I myself am not Radon licensed, I use third party contractors I have several environmental companies I work with that allow them to do the Radon testing.

You know, the crazy thing about Radon is is that it’s, it’s it’s one of the leading causes of cancer in the country. You know, especially if you’re a smoker it’s very dangerous for people who smoke and it leads to lung cancer at 4 picocuries liters It’s said that 62 out of 1000 people who smoke will end up with lung cancer and if you don’t smoke it’s going to be about seven so it’s not as prevalent in the non smoking community but it is the leading cause of cancer in the world you know so wow for something that most people don’t even realize to pay attention to it’s it’s pretty prevalent they say 21,000 people per year die from it countrywide you know, which is more than get killed in drunk driving. That’s an interesting number right? Um, so what can we do about radar and doesn’t matter the age of the home or any of those things a factor? And the answer to that is no, actually we the ground is constantly changing what’s going on beneath us and what’s in the house is pretty consistent generally unless you do remodeling and then absolutely you probably want to retest after you do any kind of remodeling but generally they say you should retest every two years. Testing takes a couple of days for professional tests, we put a unit in the house, it sits for 72 hours and the idea is is to keep the home as closed up as possible because Radon accumulates over time so essentially, you know we generally sleep in it is what we think of it you know the house gets closed up and you spend all those hours just laying in there fermenting and whatever’s collecting in the house and if you’re not accommodating for higher Radon levels then you’re saturating yourself in Radon while you sleep so that’s where the health effects come from. New Construction there is means by which they can do things to mitigate the allowed Radon to come from the ground if there’s barriers that can be put in under the slabs, plastics, different techniques we don’t really do that down here in Florida so much it’s mostly coming from the building products is the reason why so we just say you know let’s just test every unit and if it’s there we’ll contend with it and there’s you know, 3 to $5,000 is typical price range for Radon mitigation system. And essentially all we’re doing is is cycling air in and out of the home so that the stagnation doesn’t occur you know, so it’s essentially just a ventilation system that’s being put in that’s constantly running in the background at a very low pressure so that we reduce the accumulations in different areas get the airflow get the thing exactly there are tests on the market you can go to the you know your local hardware store and you can pick up a do it yourself test for Radon they’re generally little charcoal packages that you leave sitting around that stuff is effective it’s not nearly as accurate as the high quality testing units that we bring in from the environmental companies those things are super fancy they record air pressure temperature you know if you open and close the door while the units are in the home, it records the pressure changes and the temperature changes and it’s measuring the gas levels. So it’s a very sophisticated test that’s being done that way. So you get a real accurate result.

Charlie 

Wow, okay. Wow, this is fascinating, you know, it all all now makes sense to me. And the fact that building products…is…

Rick

Yeah, that’s, that’s really the interesting part of it. The one thing we get get Radon from outside of the building products which is odd in a lot of people’s mind it actually is in the water, especially if we’re using well water, the prevalence of Radon it’s actually dissolved into the water and it actually comes out of the water in a gas form. To some extent we do ingest it into the water. If it’s in the water in a saturated level. You know, so when We’re drinking it, we can be drinking the Radon in the water and there hasn’t been any recorded high redolence prevalence of ingesting Radon being a problem, it’s it’s the gas, Radon that’s causing lung cancer, that’s the, that’s the real problem. So things like when we take a shower, you know, and there’s all this evaporation from the hot water, high levels of Radon in the water will accumulate, obviously, whenever that’s occurring, so water can be a very big source of where Radon comes from. And again, there are ways to mitigate the Radon in the water. Oftentimes, well systems out here we use air aeration tanks to begin with because of the sulfur content and odor in the water. And that’s a great way to help mitigate the Radon as well because it gives it time, and it’s literally aerating the water. So you’re literally taking the gas out of the water, which is exactly what we’re trying to do for that, you know, so that’s a good move.

But you know, on the topic of water, which is why we were going to mix today’s Radon topic with water testing, and what’s in your water. You know, it’s kind of a great segue there, you know, well, water and city water are kind of two different beasts. When we drink from our public water, it goes through a treatment plant. There’s requirements of testing and levels of all kinds of different things to be monitored. In fact, water is a very touchy subject with the health department down here. And you’re always allowed access public access to the testing results. But you know, testing public water isn’t really necessary, because it’s constantly tested by the government. And if you test it yourself, and you think you’re going to come back and report something to them that you found, you’re going to have a fight on your hands. We don’t often get into the world of testing city water, but you can test city water if you’re concerned with, you know, particular problems of the building, you’re looking at, like lead pipes or something like that localize. So in that regard. Absolutely. You want to test all sorts of water, the VA, if you’re doing FHA or VA loans, they specifically require water test for part of the loan package because they want to know what they’re writing alone on in particular, there are several different water tests that we can perform for you. We do these ourselves, we don’t do the test, but we you know, we do the sampling and then provide it to the lab and they do all the fancy work for us. There are different ways and different tests out there. There’s a simple what we call the bacteria test. If you’re on a well we recommend that you have your well tested yearly, the water table is constantly changing down here and you can have the bacteria move into your well. Generally if you’re on a well you also have a septic in your yard. So depending on how the water tables moving around, you could be bringing bacteria from your septic into your well. So you should keep an eye on those things. That test in particular is not a big deal. As a homeowner, you can actually do it yourself, you can get a hold of the Department of Health go down to the water department they will give you the equipment you need to take the sample you bring it to them and they’ll test it for you for I think $50 or something like that. The test we do is basically the same. If we do it on site while we’re there inspecting it we just charge $75 for the simple well test and it’s going to test for E coli and coliform bacteria. And you know that’s just basic health stuff so you don’t get intestinal diseases and constantly have intestinal problems from basically the water you’re drinking. Outside of that test. There is a full panel test that we can do. That’s more of what’s called the FHA /VA test. That one gets sent to Orlando lab there’s actually only a few labs in the whole country that do the full panel water test. So that one that one is quite expensive and in fact that one goes it’s it’s in the $300/$400 range  but it’s going to test obviously for the bacteria it also test for leads and nitrates and nitrates turbidity our urine magnesium pH like I said it’s a full panel test but it gives you the full spectrum of what’s in your water and then you can get really carried away with water testing as they’re gonna call it out for specific items and that’s where these these central labs come in and you name it we can test for it and it comes with dollar amount essentially the lab fees are expensive. The laboratory stuff gets pricey. So when we do lab testing and all these, you know, Mold Testing and Radon testing, most of the cost of that stuff is science cost labs, lab fees.

Charlie 

Yeah, yeah. Wow. Interesting, interesting stuff here. You know, I’m I’m completely fascinated again, by your knowledge, Rick. And I know we have listeners who may have questions, you know, may want to just learn a little bit more about what you cover, although this was very, very thorough. Would it be possible for some of our listeners to get in touch? And if so well?

Rick 

Yeah, absolutely. Please, at any point, you can reach out to me I’d love to just talk to you and give you some info. If you think you’re having issues, we would gladly come out and help you out in any way we can.

You can reach me on email at Rick at www.TradeSecretsInspections.com. You can call me at 239-537-1186 that’s direct number to me, call me anytime I take calls whenever I’m available to answer the phone

Charlie 

Alright, thanks again another awesome episode in the can and more importantly out there helping folks and we look forward to getting together in the next episode.

Thanks for listening to the Trade Secrets Inspections podcast. To learn more about Trade Secrets Inspections, go to www.TradeSecretsInspections.com or call to 239-537-1186.

 Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Charlie 

Welcome to the Trade Secrets Inspections podcast, because “You need to know!”. Here’s your host, Rick Kooyman.

Hey, welcome back to the Trade Secrets Inspections podcast. I’m back Charlie McDermott here with Rick Kooyman. Rick, how you doing?

Rick

I’m doing excellent. It’s great to be back with you, Charlie. Looking forward to having a great discussion today.

Charlie 

Yeah, and I love today’s-well… it’s a love/hate, relationship today. Anyway, I don’t love mold. But I love talking about mold and how to make sure one, you don’t end up in a situation where you have an existing situation with mold. And but that’s a hot topic and important topic for Southwest Florida. And so glad you’re going to share a lot of information that you have today. This might be one of those longer episodes, which is fine, because I think this is well, well worth it. So Rick, let’s start with the old topic. You take it away.

Rick

All right, excellent. Yeah, that’s uh, let’s discuss one of the hot topics is Southwest Florida, really all of Florida but yeah, mold is huge., and an issue and a definite concern. We often jokingly call it the “fungus among us”, but you know, we’ll talk about why that is and what we can do about it. So how’s that sound?

Charlie 

I love it. I love it.

Rick

Alright, so, like I said, mold actually a fungus. In general, when we look out on the planet, there’s basically three things out there that we see. There’s a little more than that. But for our purposes, there’s animals. there’s plants, and there’s fungus. Yeah, well, mold falls under the fungus family, but not all fungus is mold. So we could clarify that now. But there’s basically three types of molds that are really of a concern to us. And we consider them either allergenic meaning that they’re irritants to us. They’re pathogenic, that they’re, they’re a little more than an irritant. They make us sick. They cause lung irritations and sinus infections. And then we have toxigenic molds. And those are the ones that can actually kill us. You know, and they make us really sick. And we call them toxic mold. So we’ll get to that topic here shortly. But yes, so what’s going on with mold, and what happens is, it’s always around us. So mold is always out in around us. It’s, it’s in different levels, because it is a plant of a nature, and it responds to the environment. So depending on the time of day, the season a year what the weather’s doing, you know, all those environmental factors will attribute to what molds and to what level those molds are present around us. So people always say, Well, is there mold in my house? The answer’s yes. Yeah, there’s definitely your house, there’s mold everywhere and includes your house, that’s what we really want to know is, is are we creating an environment for that mold to grow? And okay, so when we look at mold, when I look for mold, I’m doing a comparison, I’m looking at what’s outside in the environment, and what’s inside in the house. And they ideally should relate, right. So there should be some correlation to what’s seen inside and outside. And if we see something going on inside, that’s what we call elevated or, you know, substantially different from what’s outside then we can say, well, something’s growing inside that house. So we take it to the next step and try to figure out what that is, and how to correct it. But typically, with any mold, you generally need really basically, a few things for it to grow. You need the spore, obviously, you know the seed, you need a food source for it, which can be any organic material, wood, dirt, you know, skin, dead insects, any organic material will grow mold, and that includes any synthetic material that has organic debris on top of it. So we often see mold growing on plastics and metals and all kinds of things you wouldn’t think are organic, or a food source, but they have a food source on top of them, because they’re not sterile, if you will, right. So if we have those environments, and we give it a little bit of water, okay, so generally humidity is all it needs for water. Typically humidity levels above 60%. And boom, it’s it’s in its zone. You know, if the temperatures between, let’s say, 40 and a 100 degrees, that’s its ideal range, it’s going to grow. So

Charlie 

as chilly is 40 degrees?

Rick

Yeah, there’s actually molds that are grow sub freezing. And there’s many that’ll live above 120. But you know, for general reasons, general topic of, you know, discussion is 40 to 100. So, anywhere inside your attic, you know, even if you’re up north in a freezing environment, it can happen. So the biggest thing we look for then is the water. Because the spores are there, there’s probably a food source there, because it’s not a sterile environment. And humidity, that’s something we control can control. And that is the variable in which we play with basically to mitigate what’s going on. And so water intrusion, humidity levels, you know, like I said, 60% or above, you’re, you’re itching for mold to grow, you know, so down here, we have a lot of part time residents. We often see thermostats get set up at 80 degrees, or even they turn the ACS off. Yeah, you’re, you’re just looking for a problem, in my opinion, right. So you really need to keep the thermostat set to about, I would say, 77, a lot of people will go to 78. But what we’re trying to do there is drop the humidity, it’s not the temperature, because obviously it’s in the 40 to 100 degrees zone, it’s the humidity, and it’s the air conditioner that’s drying out the interior. So as it’s cooling air, it’s pulling that water out, which goes down the condensate drain, hopefully that’s not blocked. And it goes outside. And then in turn, the humidity in interior is lower than the humidity outside. And we hopefully are at 60% or lower. Me personally, I run a dehumidifier in my house, in addition to the air conditioner. And in doing so, it drops another 10% of the humidity in the interior. And in 1500 square feet and 24 hours, I’ll dump five gallons of water.

Charlie

Wow. Yeah. So the water that’s in your house that you don’t… amazing. Isn’t that incredible? Yeah. And

it’s already a condition.

Rick

Yeah, yeah. And you know, it’s in the mid 70s 75/76 degrees. Yeah, five gallons a day routinely.

Charlie 

So yeah, you can see how quickly, mold can just take over. Wow, yeah,

Rick

I’ve seen horrible things happen. I’ve seen mold takeover cars, you wouldn’t even imagine, you know that you’ll leave your car locked up. And it might have a little moisture leak in the floor. I’ve seen those bucket dehumidifier products left in a cars that collect supposedly, the moisture in a bucket, if you will. And it turns the inside of the car into like a big, fuzzy, growing green thing.

Charlie  

You know, it’s interesting, you brought back memories, you know, when I first got down here, yeah, I saw these heard about these air conditioned garages in these places actually, place was just built off of Bonita Beach Road that has air conditioning. Auto storage garage, you said and now I get it, you know, you just you can’t leave her car garage, just sit there.

Rick

No, it and you know moisture and heat down here contribute to the deterioration of all our products as well. So not only invites an opportunity for molds to grow, but it also is causing the components to basically off gas and decompose at a rapid rate. So we see things get gooey and fall apart a lot down here. That’s a part of the environment, if you will..

Charlie 

on a paradise. Yeah, right. So even. Yeah, negative side. Yeah,

Rick

yeah. So so just to get back to the mold for a second here. There’s basically well let there’s four major types of molds. We have aspergillus, which is one of those irritant kind of ones we see all the time. And then penicillin, which is very common, and it’s also what we call the pathogenic where it can make us sick. It’s definitely an allergenic it’s not toxic, though. So we get into the toxic molds, and we call those stachybotrys. There’s a few others, but those are the ones that the common name is black mold. But not all black mold is stachybotrys. So that’s kind of the misnomer there. And that’s why just because we see something growing we don’t say that it’s mold right away. We call it a microbial growth. It needs to be tested and determined what exactly microbial there is growing. And maybe it’s a fungus, maybe it’s a fungal mold. It could even be a bacteria product for that matter. But depending on what type of mold we find there, the kind of anticipates what practices, we’re going to need to mitigate it or remediate it. And it will also you can also take these results straight to your doctor, because this has a direct effect on our health, because we’re living in it. And you would be amazed that when a doctor sees what’s in the air, and you’re living in it, and they go, Oh, aha, this or correlates to this other, we didn’t even think about it. And oftentimes, you know, it’s sinusitis, or lung disease, or something of that nature. And we’re trying everything else. But really, it’s the house we’re living in, that’s really aggravating the situation. So what we do is we come in with our various tools, and we look for oddities, if you will, we’re looking for moisture, discolorations, musty odors, using various tools from, humidity readers, temperature gauges, and thermal cameras, if we can, because most of what we try to do is non invasive, borescopes, to see kind of in walls and behind and look at plumbing fittings, you know, but air conditioning vents, here’s a big thing, because you know, metal is cold, and it condensates and you often see mold growing on the vents. And you just, if you just leave it there, you’re you’re inviting the condition to be blown around in the house. So you know, areas like that we should keep an eye on and don’t be afraid to take those vents down and put them in the sink and clean them. Let them dry. Put them back on the wall. It’s there’s nothing wrong with that. Take a vacuum clean up the vent hole, you know that those things are good practices for homeowners to do if they can do it. And it’s not 20 feet in the air because it’s a big, huge vaulted ceiling.

Charlie 

Wow. Wow. So it’s a it’s what you don’t see that could be a real problem, obviously. Yeah,

Rick

yeah. And you know, going on that topic, that’s a good transition for us, here’s what’s safe for us to deal with and what’s not. And what’s the law say? Again, molds a very sensitive topic here in Florida. Really, nobody unless you have a license is allowed to do mold work if we use that word. So there’s basically two people with that license. There’s a mold assessor and a mold remediator assessor is the guy that goes in and finds the degree of the problem and writes the protocols. And says, This is what needs to be done. And this is how it needs to be done. And then the remediator comes in and follows that protocol. And then when they’re done, the assessor comes back and test to make sure that it’s all clear. And then the project can be put back together. Those people are, must be involved, if we have a condition that’s greater than 10 square feet in total affected area, which isn’t a big area. So basically something a little bigger than three foot by three foot. And it’s a remediation project. You know, so behind the bathroom cabinet that’s been leaking for 15-20 years. You know, that’s typically enough area that that’s a remediation. And why is that important? Because if you open that, and don’t treat it properly, you’ve just exposed the whole rest of the house and every nook and cranny and like a big burst of spores when you open it up and it just goes airborne, and you’ve contaminated now the whole rest of your house. Wow. And, you know, so the environment is what we’re trying to protect. Like I said, mold is around us it’s always outside when it’s growing outside, there is no remediation practices because it’s outside. We just remove it and clean it up and and in that regard the remediation practices for inside is just that there’s no real easy way to just spray treat it and move on. It physically has to be removed. So it’s about treating it with a biocide. Sometimes a bleach mix of products but bleach by itself will not solve the problem. It just kills the stuff on top and bleaches the spores that are still alive and it just comes right back. Right so we got a we got to physically remove it and then it’s gone and that’s why you know encapsulation prop processes and you know negative air processes are all used contained, so that we’re not spreading it around. So 10 Square feets the rule. Under that, you know, any homeowner is allowed to deal with that issue. Technically, they could do it and test it themselves, if they could get, you know, a self test for maybe a DIY store or something. Our lab tests are very high, accurate. You know, they’re PhD lab tests. So they’re, they’re a little expensive, but they’re worth the money. Like I said, they’re definitive in nature. And you can take it to the doctor basically.

Charlie 

So, so the obvious is, you know, before buying home equal to make sure it checks out as best you can. So certainly, that’s, that’s where you come in. But I know we have listeners who have no intention in moving/ buying a home, but maybe in the back of the mind are going, geez, you know, I’ve had some sinus issues, or I just want to know, just from a health standpoint, is, is that something that you can help them with? Is that something?.

Rick

Oh, absolutely That’s absolutely what we do. We do everybody from the buyers and the sellers, you know, to the people that are living in their house, and have no intention of moving, you know, that that is a good portion of what we deal with. Because when you when you’re moving, you generally move all the belongings in the house and expose things that are kind of hidden, non visible, you know, when we live in the house, and we build up our collection over 20 plus years, or whatever, we become a little bit not aware of what’s going on. And it gets a little out of hand sometimes. So yeah, a lot of it is dealing with just that. Right there. And we welcome all kinds so yeah, we’re here to help everybody.

Charlie 

Awesome. Well, this was a great, great episode, like all of your episodes, but really, I think important for a lot of different reasons for for our listeners, and folks in Southwest Florida, like you said, all over the state of Florida, cuz I know you’re, you broadcast this podcast all over the country, for that matter. So good for you. Any final words on mold, Rick, that that you want to circle back around and emphasize and maybe something we forgot about?

Rick

Yeah, absolutely. Let’s just remember that mold is everywhere, it’s always going to be around us. And the way we remediate and treat for it is to, you know, keep our environments clean and control the exposure of water and humidity, and, you know, and the food which is the debris and dirt in our environment. So we control these things, and it’s within our realm to to deal and live with this product. It’s always going to be there.

Charlie 

Well, hey, thanks again. Look forward to catching up in the next episode.

Rick

Absolutely. It’s great talking with Charlie, I can’t wait to do it again.

Charlie 

Thanks for listening to the Trade Secrets Inspections podcast. To learn more about Trade Secrets Inspections, go to www.TradeSecretsInspections.com or call to 239-537-1186.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Charlie
Welcome to the Trade Secrets Inspections podcast because you need to know, here’s your host, Rick Kooyman. Hey this is Charlie McDermott, I am back in the trade secrets inspection studio with none other than Rick Kooyman. And Rick, how you doing today?

Rick
Excellent, Charlie, great to be with you, again.

Charlie
Great to have you and your your knowledge, I just just hear far and wide how every time I talk about your show, oh, my goodness, I always learned something new from Rick. And then you have a great topic for us today. And that being the four point inspections, I couldn’t even tell you what one point is. So I can’t wait to hear all four. So, Rick, let’s start with that. Tell us about the importance of the four point inspections and what they even are for that matter.

Rick
Yeah, right. The the four point inspections is is one of those insurance documents in a sense, and people often get that confused right off the bat, because they think it’s just another form of inspection for a customer. And it really isn’t, for the customer in that regard for them to interpret. It’s more for going to get insurance, and it’s generally used on older properties. So it’s a way for underwriters to get the details, basically.

Charlie
Okay, so is the concept that, you know, obviously, insurance is all about risk. And they need to understand the risk level of older properties is that kind of the point?

Rick
So they’re they’re looking at when they come up with a four point, the four major systems that they’re evaluating the risk of, they want to know what their general conditions are, when they were last serviced, you know what they are, you know, they have some very specific questions. So I was actually going to go through each each of the sections, because as a homeowner, there’s stuff you can do with this to kind of prepare for when this actually comes out. And it’ll affect how I have to record it. And you know, that some a little preparation ahead of time, a little cleaning up a little paint here, and there can go a long way, in a great world a lot better off.

Charlie
Awesome, awesome. Yeah, go ahead.

Rick
Yeah, so let’s just start with what are the four systems, right? So we can look at is the electric system, your air conditioning, heat, your HVAC, your plumbing system, and your roof system. Within those four components, they want to know a bunch of information. So when we get hired by the insurance company, or you the customer to come out and do this for you, we’re essentially made to ask a whole series of questions, you know, they basically check boxes and input data kind of thing on a form, you know, so starting with the electrical panel, they’re looking for manufacturer, and then conditional wires, and what kind of wire systems are used, specifically is aluminum involved because they want to know, aluminum can be a high risk activity. In older homes, you often have wire that is not insulated, we call it knob and tube wire, or there’s even the older style cloth wire, that actual cloth line wire gets, especially down here, it gets really brittle, and it becomes a fire hazard just in itself. So they they look for things like that. And then we take pictures, everything. So if we find something wrong, or something that needs to be reported, we have to show a picture of it. If it you know is presented in one of the topics on the form, you know, such as blown fuses or you know, corrosion or scorching, or something like that, we’ve got to show the proof of it. And then if we find nothing wrong, well, then we just take a picture of it is one big shot and the underwriter can see it and we check it off is satisfactory, we’ll move on to the next section. You know, so electrical, we don’t ever encourage people to get involved with themselves, because it’s often hazardous. But people often ask, why does it matter that these things get corrected? And I always say, well, it generally matters for insurance forms. So when we do the other inspections, and we’re like, hey, you’ve got a you know, these double taps in here. And it’s not really a huge issue, except for the insurance underwriters won’t give you a policy if they know about it. Right. So this is why those things got to get corrected. And again, this is why I say you know ahead of time, then you can prepare and then instead of me coming out there and saying oh there’s this problem in here. And if I say there’s a problem, they’re immediately going to disqualify it and say yeah, we don’t want to be involved with that until there’s no problems we want to clean form essentially.

Charlie
No surprises right.

Rick
There in there in comes the next section of the HVAC you know, and this is one where people can definitely help themselves out especially in Florida with all this moisture and humidity and rain and heat using using the air conditioning excessively. They specifically ask is there indications of water staining from you know, condensation leaks or interior air handler condensate tray leaks, you know, water staining on your ceiling. Those kinds of things matter when we come out and do this inspection because they’re specifically asking those questions. And then we have to show a picture of it clear if it’s not. So it’s not about just our discretion. It’s literally about checking the boxes and then showing the proof, you know, so if in the past your drain line has gotten clogged up, because you know, who hasn’t neglected your condensate drain and Florida. And it backed up and made a stain on your ceiling, and you got it fixed three years ago, and it’s never been a problem. And there’s just a brown spot there. Well paint the brown spot before we come out and do this inspection. Otherwise, we got to report that there’s a stain on the ceiling, and that’s unsatisfactory, as silly as that might sound.

Charlie
Wow, that’s great. Yep.

Rick
Well, it matters keeping, you know, making things look good, I guess, in a way actually does matter, to some extent more than some people would like to think it does. Right. And then the next section, they talk about plumbing, and this is sometimes more about conditions of equipment. Again, water is their biggest concern when they’re writing risk policies.

What kind of the pipes? Are they specifically they want to know what are your drain pipes made out of where your supply pipes made out of? And then they want to know about valves are they functional, or they show signs of leaking,again this question of leaks, they actually asked, Is there an indication of a prior leak Yes, or no? Water staining again, you know, it goes to that point, I got to put a picture around the toilet if the toilet leaked A few years ago, and the floors all messed up because of it. Well, they’re not going to want to be part of that. So yeah, those occur and those things are going to need to get taken care of, but they go as far as wanting to know about the kitchen appliances, they you know, dishwasher, refrigerator, washing machine, of course, your water heater, and then all your fixtures, your bathtubs, your toilets, your sinks, you know, any of your main valves, if you have a sump pump, which you probably don’t in Florida, but they want to know about anything to do with water, essentially, any of those things where you have those those past issues that guy got taken care of, but never got cleaned up. toilets and around air handlers. Yeah, that’s some that’s some, some a few minutes with some paint that can really go a long way for your insurance coverage and your rates and stuff like that. And then the last one we talk about is roofs, because, you know, of course, the roof in Florida is one of the most important things and it’s one of the first things to go and when the storms hit. So again, they’re just looking at conditions. Is there damage? How old is the roof? What kind of roof is it? You know, has it been partially replaced or fully replaced, you know, different kinds of roofs they ask different kinds of questions about you know, if it’s asphalt shingle, is it, you know, sun worn and cracked and cut and all that kind of stuff? And if it’s tile, are they cracked and missing? You know? And again, are there any indications of leaks past or present? That question comes up in all four sections. So you know, these matter, as far as you know, taking care of your home, and when the insurance appraisers come out, and when they send out us to do these inspection reports. You know, conditions make a difference is the is the note for today.

Charlie
Wow, that’s great, great stuff. I mean, it reminded me I have a closet, of course in the ceiling, if you look up, which is right below the HVAC unit from spill over years ago, it’s like, you know, who’s ever gonna look in the closet is a good reminder. You know, it’s worth getting a paintbrush out, right?

Rick
Yeah, right. I mean, you know, you can wait until the insurance tells you you need to have this done. But most people don’t even know that. And they don’t tell you ahead of time. And oftentimes, I don’t get to speak with the customer, necessarily when it gets scheduled. I mean, if I’m talking to somebody, I always try to give everybody a heads up on what’s going on. But you know, everybody’s different. A lot of people are out of town. Most of these homes are not occupied. So that’s where I just get sent in and report what I see.

Charlie
Yeah, yeah. Well, this is really helpful. Besides the fact that I now know what a four point inspection is. our listeners also know some of the things that they can do to ,yeah,. Make sure the process goes a lot smoother without any surprises.

So this is awesome, Rick.

Unknown Speaker
Excellent. Excellent. Yeah. And this goes hand in hand with the last episode we went, we did together on the wind mit form. So wind mitigation goes hand in hand with insurance and as the homes get older, they ask for this four point inspection and depending on who The underwriter is depends on how old the home is when they ask for it, it might be 10 years it might be 30 years. So it’s all over the spectrum. Wow.

Charlie
Wow. Great stuff. Rick, really appreciate you spending time with us again today and I look forward to our next episode.

Rick
Excellent speaker with you again, Charlie.

Charlie
Thanks for listening to the Trade Secrets Inspections Podcast. To learn more about Trade Secrets Inspections, go to www.TradeSecretsInspections.com or call 239-537-1186

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Charlie  

Welcome to the Trade Secrets Inspections podcast because you need to know, here’s your host, Rick Kooyman. Hey, this is Charlie the producer of the Trade Secrets Inspections, podcast, and I’m back with Rick Kooyman in the studio. Rick, how you doing? 

 Rick

Excellent, excellent. How you doing, Charlie? 

Charlie

Doing great, Rick, and you’re going to solve one of the big mysteries, for I know a lot of people’s lives and certainly was mine, probably still is I mean, hey, let’s be honest here- I’m not an expert. And that’s why you’re doing this podcast when it comes to home inspections. But, you know, a guy coming from Pennsylvania a few years back down to Florida- And this wind mitigation thing. I had no idea what it was about. And certainly, it’s a pretty big deal. When it’s all said and done, because I guess when a hurricane hit, it’s not so much the rain that does the damage. It’s the wind, right?

Rick 

Yeah, absolutely. Now, we’re looking at wind storm resistance primarily with us this topic. But yeah, Florida is a difficult state for insurance in general. And recently, insurance has gotten even more tough. And there’s policies that have been cancelled, and lots of people are shopping and insurance rates have gone up. So this has been a big topic. There’s a lot of misunderstanding or just general, what is that all about? Yeah, let’s take a look at that.

Charlie

So yeah, what is Wind Mitigation, that whole inspection piece about where it came from anyways?

Rick

Why it exists in Florida. And honestly, most all, this stuff we deal with in Florida, and building is all a result of a Hurricane Andrew, essentially, you know, back in 92, Miami, and really caused a lot of damage. You know, it’s kind of hard to wrap your head around. But if you think about it, right after Andrew went through Miami, there were 250,000 people without, homes. We went through Irma, and that was a completely different story. If you can imagine devastation across, you know, the whole town. That’s what happened in the town of Homestead was virtually erased on the surface. When that happened, that there was a hard look to take that by, and what could we do about it. And at that point in time, insurance really just kind of ran out of the state because, of course, they were just getting hammered. So they didn’t want to write any more policies. And Florida had to come up with their own insurance, essentially, and created Citizens and Citizens, you know, established with these extremely high rates, essentially, because they were the only ones in town, in order to kind of qualify, what different homes were and how they could adjust the rates, they came up with this wind mitigation. certification, essentially, they call it an 1802 inspection. That’s per, you know, Florida Statutes and stuff. And they defined specific who could do it. There’s only about six different people under different license that can do it, you know, Home Inspectors, building code inspectors, general contractors, engineer architect that any one of those people can’t just go out and do this, you still have to be certified and take the course, to be able to do this and complete this form, because it is quite technical in its nature. And honestly, I’ve taken this class for the certification, I take it every year. And every year,  I learn something new. It’s just, you just scratch your head over and over again, there’s just so many layers, but but ultimately, it comes down to seven different sections. And what underwriters are looking at and what they’re assessing is their risk based on these five different things that are honest. And one of them goes back to Andrew, and they want to know what building code was built to what you know, what standards was that house built under? And what year was it built? And you know, it was built pre-19- let’s just call it 2000. There were no differences in the Florida building code. Unless you were in my day, because 94 Miami-Dade said, you know, we’re not going to let Homestead build back to how it was right there in 94. They came up with what we all know is Miami-Dade code or what we all hear is Miami-Dade approved everywhere. And that’s where that came from. So then, in 2002, that the whole state adopted that building code. So houses built prior to 2002 don’t have the same building requirements that were established for hurricanes to begin. So right there. That’s what they want to know right off the bat. And when was this house built and what’s the standard it was built? You know, once they start with that question? Oh, okay, so maybe we want to look at this, maybe we don’t. And then the next thing they want to know is about the roof. The roofs in Florida and homes is like, they go hand in hand and topics of, you know, what status is this house? What value and risk is this house? And that’s the first place they look.

They want to know, again, when was that built? How old is it? What type of roof is it. And then, when they set up the Miami-Dade code, they established product lines that had to meet the testing standards that went with those codes. So now there’s a products that are now called Miami-Dade approved products, or there, they also have a mortar registration number. And then the county records, you see it as what’s called a NOAA or a notice of acceptance. And that means that it’s been evaluated by the state, and approved for use, and these are called high risk. We have the hurricane zone, we have a high wind zone. And they’re very close to the same. Ultimately, they’re going to be the same, but they have basic proximities to the coast that define them differently. This is the maximum expected high wind or what they’re designed for. So they meet the standards. And if you can, if you have your door, or your roof tile, and it’s tested to meet that requirement, then of course, that’s the product they only want you to use. And of course, there’s a premium to all those products because they had to go through all this rigorous testing. They want to know about that stuff. And then they want to know, how was the whole roof system built? Not just what kind of roof covering? Is it? They want to know specifically? What is the deck wall? What kind of sheeting Was it? What kind of nails were used? o with staples? What’s the spacing between those fasteners? They’re really nitty gritty on this stuff they want to know, was it on the edge of the sheeting? Or was it in the middle of the sheet? And there’s different levels for different classifications and all the different ways you can put a house together, right? So then they take it one step further. And they go, Well, how is that whole roof system attached to the walls? You know, not just the seat after the truss, but so now we look at how is the truss attached to the wall? And again, how many different ways can you come up with to do that. And then they came up with a list of different ones that they accept. And we call them straps or clips, the standard way homes were built forever, With the classic toenail, which you know, you just put the nail in on an angle on the side of the word pounded through the trust edge and end to the top of the wall. You put one on each side and was crossed and built. But essentially in a high windstorm. If you’ve built your house like that, it just pops right off. We’ve seen the videos where the whole system gives off when a tornado or a hurricane and you’re like wow, the whole roof just came off together. But that’s a classic toenail situation. You know, so here in Florida again, we have a myriad of different ways. We can attach that roof to the wall and what kind of wall it is. And again, they risk assess that, you know, and then they go Okay, so we’ve looked at what the roof and the walls and the clips and the straps and all these kinds of things and nails sheeting? What kind of roof is it? You know, is it a traditional gable roof with those big triangles on the end of it the catch when you know they look like a kite? Or is it what we call the hip roof where essentially around the perimeter of the house is one consistent law. You know, so there’s no big triangles up in the air. And that’s really what they’re looking for. They really like those hip roof styles. And then they take it because there’s lots of architects out there, they’d like to make fancy roofs. We’ve all seen the big fancy roofs, and they’ll go Okay, so is it within 90% of being a hip roof? And if so, you got to prove it by the plan and the numbers and you know, they want to see the map. They want to see the dimensions they want to see. Is it really a hip roof event? It’s not a small assessment they’re doing on this thing. So we looked at the roof structures, we looked at the roof types, and then what happens when the tile comes off the roof or the shingles get blown off the roof?

When does the water enter the home, essentially, because that’s really when the damage starts to occur when we start having flooding, that, you know, that’s where the big money starts to get spent. So that down here we, we come up with this secondary water resistance, they call it So, and the rest of the country, your roof covers your primary route, you know, your shingles your tile, that’s what keeps the water out of your house. In Florida. That’s not the case. Those are decorative items down here. The thing that keeps the water out of your home, is the underlayment. And it’s done in a different way. And they have qualifications for that. Is it a barrier? Is it a resistance layer? You know, these are all different levels of water resistance, if you will, or way they qualify? how well this home is going to stand up and these big storms. So, there again, you get another discount for, you know, what kind of underlayment you have? After all this stuff is about the roof is done. Can I put that all that they go? Well, what other hazards Can we look at in the house. And of course, the next big one is your windows and your doors. In construction Well, we call the penetrations. So a solid wall is a great thing. But if you put a hole in it, now you’ve got, you know, a riskier area. And they go to the extent in the testing of this things. They literally shoot a two by four and stuff. You know, it’s it’s, there’s a full size two by four shot out of a cannon, that if it penetrates it, it doesn’t qualify. So no hurricane rated, which is kind of funny. If you look at this, the real stats on the glass, a standard bulletproof window, doesn’t meet Miami-Dade requirements. His window is a bulletproof window, and is actually stronger than a standard bullet.  there’s a there’s a double benefit, if you will. These new windows because there is a huge security game. And having you know bulletproof glass in your home, you know, you can’t break through these windows with a bat, you cannot longer enter a home that way as you know, criminals. So that’s a big benefit to them. As a side note, but yeah, that they want to know what windows are there. They get a credibly specific about the glass and you may have noticed in your Windows this small etching in the bottom corner in your class. And it defines how that window was put together by the manufacturer? You know, what kind of glass was it? How thick is it? What are the layers? What standards was it led to? And then finally, some of them actually get to what’s called Miami-Dade code approved. So what we’re seeing going nowadays down here on big money, but definitely worth it. If you spend that money, you should have that benefit in your insurance. Why would you not? Why would you pay the higher assessment than if you didn’t have, you know, the current cloud nowadays is you either have to have those or you have to have a large missile rated shirts. So they’re not letting anything built or get remodeled or changed out and not meet this requirement. It’s been that way in Miami for a long time you go over there or shatter your world locally, we’re just starting to get to that production, try and get to 100%. So we got a long way to go with that. Those are the big issues here. So, you know, in each one of those topics resulted in you know, anywhere from 500 to a couple $1,000 off your premium, you know, so depending on what materials and methods, your home were built, you can cut your rate in half. Right. Wow. So when I say nationals, it’s not a lot of money. It’s generally, you know, under 150 bucks to have this wind mitigation inspection down in the forms put together and you know, they’re not easy on the inspectors, that we can’t just make a statement on it and say it, this is how it was, we literally got to show a photo of what it is that we’re attesting to, so that any person could reasonably come to that same conclusion. So there’s no gray areas unless it’s literally This is what it is. And this is the proof. And then they take it and they write their assessment, and this is how much we’re willing to put a risk on that and that’s the value and that’s where your insurance rate comes from.

Charlie  

So are you saying Rick that the onus is on the homeowner to prove that you know, they have a certain type of roof system to qualify or…

Rick

actually, really that’s what they hire us for.. 

Charlie  

Okay…

Rick

Not so complicated you can download it yourself from the internet, the chances of you filling it out about zero. And then yeah, yeah, you’d have to send the photos that they’re asking. 

Charlie  

Yeah. Wow, wow. Sheesh, yeah. There’s this silly little discount form but yeah., and then there’s more to come, you know, the next podcast down the road we’re going to talk about the next other insurance things as house and they call that the four point inspection and that one’s yet even more to hear about. So that’s my other side of where your insurance policies come from. We’ll talk about that one next.

Well, I can’t wait. And yeah, this is great timing because, as you mentioned the beginning of the episode, you know, home insurance is a bit in a topsy turvy point at the moment. And yeah, so glad you’re able to spend some time sharing your knowledge and helping us homeowners who are kind of scratching our heads at this point, wondering what’s going on. So really appreciate it, Rick, and look forward to next episode.

Rick 

Awesome. Great talking with you, Charlie.

Charlie  

Thanks for listening to the Trade Secrets Inspections podcast. To learn more about Trade Secrets Inspections, go to www.TradeSecretsInspections.com or call to 239 537 1186

Transcribed by https://otter.ai